The Media Beat

[00:00:02] Oliver
Well, hello one and all and welcome to The Media Beat and we've made it! Episode 100! We've made the centenary, very few, very few podcasts managed to do this but of course we have. There were some dark times and we thought we'd never make it but you know the 50s were pretty bad. But no, we made it to episode 100 and as a result of 100 we have decided that this episode should be pretty much the same as every other episode we've been doing lately, with a deep dive in the news and the Podmojis. We'll be talking about Comic-Con. We'll be talking about the Paramount merger, what's going on there. Fortnite has a new season. There's something to talk about with regard to the World Cup, live music. etc. But just because we're on the 100th, thought it would be quite nice to just pay tribute to Maureen and Claire and just tell them what an absolute privilege it has been to work with them these last four years, putting together some really quality media insight. Thank you very much for letting me be part of it.

[00:01:03] Claire
Well, thank you, Oliver. We could not, and I say this with full honesty, have done it without you.

[00:01:11] Maureen
I've got a Podmoji!

[00:01:13] Claire
Yeah, but that's a happy Podmoji for Oliver.

[00:01:13] Maureen
Here we go.

[00:01:13] Oliver
Oh, I'll take it. a little dog which makes a heart.

[00:01:17] Oliver
Oh, there.

[00:01:17] Claire
Oh, that's so cute.

[00:01:17] Maureen
There's a heart. There's a heart.

[00:01:19] Oliver
And it's been fun. So let's move on to what people are waiting for, which is a deep dive. So The Odyssey is out. And after all the controversy, most people are saying it's absolutely awesome. I haven't seen it yet, but maybe I will. Records breaking, records are falling. So we thought we would look at, we've touched on in the past, but it's such a fascinating subject. We thought we'd do a deep dive. It certainly deserves one. The subject of theatrical windows and cinema economics. Let's start with the economics part and definitely better, of course. Maureen Kerr, over to you.

[00:01:53] Maureen
Thank you, Oliver. And yeah, a big heart, a big heart. Thank you for that. It's been a pleasure to work with you both over the last four years. Okay, yeah. So as you rightly say, Oliver, the films are working. So Toy Story, let's do a little bit of the film economics and I'll hand off to Claire for the theatrical windowing. So yeah, Toy Story, let's do a little bit of sort of adding up some numbers. So Toy Story passed $1 billion dollars worldwide last weekend. It's the third film to reach that mark this year. The Super Mario Galaxy movie and Michael, of course, Michael Jackson. And The Odyssey, wait for it, drum roll, is around about 650 million now after just two weekends. So it could be the fourth. It could be the fourth. But look, the interesting thing about The Odyssey is not only how many tickets it has sold, it is where people want to see it. So Christopher Nolan, of course, shot the film entirely on IMAX 70mm film cameras. So it is the first feature made that way. So on its opening weekend, IMAX generated around 52 million from the film's 260 million worldwide debut. Claire texted me that she was having difficulty getting IMAX tickets — she's not the only one. That 52 million from a 260 million total is around 20% — an extraordinary share. Less than 1% of the world's cinema screens. I'm bombarding you with stats here, as this is the economics section. Only 41 cinemas can show The Odyssey in IMAX 70mm. Together, those cinemas took $6.5 million dollars during that single opening weekend. So if you think about it, that's about $150,000 per screen. Amazing. So anyway, many screenings, of course, have continued to sell out. When the 70mm IMAX seats sell out, demand moves into the other IMAX screens and other premium cinemas — large screens, so better sound and of course the recliner seats. That's the reason I chose my viewing of The Odyssey. Let's put this into context. So this is not simply an audience buying a film. It's an audience buying a particular room, in my view. Claire will discuss the economics of that shortly. This is now a large part of what cinema economics is all about. It's not going to be an ordinary recovery of cinema. So let's give some more stats. In 2019, North American cinemas sold about 1.24 billion tickets. In 2025 they only sold around 780 million — that's 40% fewer tickets. So the average price, we believe, is around, say, $9, which is about £7, £6, £7 in 2019. Today, we're over the $10 mark, or £10, I should say, about $13 per ticket. So there's a difference there. So the box office revenue clearly has recovered more and faster than audiences want to attend. But when they do attend, they're paying more. Right, so this is a discovery, this is probably a recovery rather, quite an interesting discovery built around fewer visits, but more money spent at each one. So people are probably paying for a better screen, they're paying for a better sound system, and yes, a better seat, preferably a recliner. So how does a cinema owner make that work? Well, AMC released some of its stats and financial figures last week, and it was a really good example. So the attendance increased around 13%, 14%, while it operated less than 2%. So around 1.5% to 2% fewer screens. So that's more people through a smaller batch of cinema screens. And since 2020, AMC has closed, which is really interesting, 225 cinemas, but reopened 66 — and that's key. Cinemas have very high fixed costs. They have to pay their landlord a lot of money in rent. And of course, the projector is already installed. Much of the staffing and running costs is already there. So the screen does not become more expensive because another 100 people sit in front of it. So when the right film or films arrive and the rooms fill up, the business improves very, very quickly. This is an inflection point. But the ticket is only part of the model, as we all know. So most of the AMC's ticket revenue, clearly, and 50%, goes back to the studios for film rental. The cinema keeps the largest share of what it makes from food, drinks, and the premium seats and memberships. So that is what I think and why recliners and the upgraded menus to the food and the premium screens are not just nice extras. This is what helps cinemas survive. They are how the cinemas are going to continue to make money from a customer that the film has already brought through the door. And for The Odyssey, of course, the IMAX even produced a collectible popcorn bucket shaped like one of the cinemas. And I don't know, Claire's blushing whether she went and bought one. But anyway, they were sold out. They were sold out. Claire is going to cover the changing, like release windows in a minute in much more detail. But one point I want to make, and that is most of the films leading this year generally remained exclusive in a cinema for 45 days before people could really sit at home and watch it. But during that period, I think the cinema was offering something that is not yet available anywhere else. And that's the best version of the film available first. And that I think is critical. So the recovery really is, I think, quite real, but it's not spread evenly. So it favors those films that can become events. So it favors IMAX, it favors premium you know screens, cinema chains that could afford to install recliners, better sounds and larger screens. And it favors, of course, the biggest sites. So where a sold out IMAX screening can push customers into several other premium screens in the same building, Otherwise it just doesn't work. So the harder question, in my view, is what happens between those major films? So the record opening weekend does not necessarily fill the Tuesday afternoon or the Tuesday evening. It just doesn't follow that way. And to press that point, Pixar now has the highest grossing film of the year, Toy Story 5. We know that. But it also, the original film Hoppers made about 390 million worldwide. That's a respectable result, but it's a long way from the billion mark. That gap really captures and affects which film studios are likely to make, what type of film the studios are going to make next. So we have cinema chains perhaps turning the corner. I don't know. Certainly as the operating business, clearly it is, and it's showing that. So they're getting more people through to their better rooms. They're charging more for their premium formats. and they're earning much more from each visit.

But this is not a return, I think, to the cinema as Friday nights. You know, let's go out on a Friday night simply because it's Friday night. It's not doing that. Let's go out because it's The Odyssey. And I'm sure most people went to see The Odyssey on a Sunday night. So anyway, cinema chains have become very good in our view at sort of improving the room and making much more money from the visits. But can they still do that with any type of film? I doubt it. But anyway, I'd like to hand over to Claire for her windowing strategies. And i I took up a little bit of time there. That's because I had to get my head around all the different stats. And I'm sure Nino will be looking at those stats and figuring out, has she got that right?

[00:10:39] Claire
Well, I didn't go to IMAX because it was sold out. So I've only seen 60% of The Odyssey really. And somebody in my party said, we'll definitely not seduce because you know the top of the screen is not on the screen. But anyway, it was still it was it was very enjoyable. Yes, we have... the If you remember, and we discussed it a little bit back then, after the pandemic, there was a sort of multi-year experiment with completely chaotic release models, some of them with ultra short window. Universal went out and did you know these 15 day windows, etc. This is when the cinemas were on the brink of collapse, really. And actually that's stabilizing and it's stabilizing around a sort of three-tiered framework that seems to be much more stable, which is quite interesting. So not all films are treated equally, which was the case before anyway, but none of them and everybody's moving away from the ultra short window. And there are reasons for that. There have been, there's been a really interesting report by Synalytic, which shows that actually the ultra short window,

[00:11:42] Claire
Depresses the box office and also depresses the digital platform because it hasn't had that you know shop window that normal that long longer theatrical releases can give you. So essentially, it's a lose-lose situation if you go under what they called 25 days or less, which is a very short window. The mid-length window is the solid place. That's 26 to 45 days. You can really get some really decent box office, but you've also had the opportunity for an extended promotional window. That means that when you do move into your Streaming strategy, then people are very aware of the movie. If they haven't gone to see it, they're expecting it, they want to see it, etc. And then you've got the extra super box office specials like The Odyssey, and those have very extended windows over 45 days for The Odyssey. It's planned to be at least 100 days, which is which is pretty intense. So where are we going with this? Well, there' so sort of the short window, which is probably around 30 to 40 days now, is very much the sort of horror, the high concept, the mid-budget comedies, the sort of counter, what we would have called counter-programming. great example is the Sheep Detective movie. I don't know if you've seen that. That's really delightful. That went into the movies as counter-programming when the A lot of big blockbusters were coming in. It did actually really nicely at the movies because it was a nice family movie. And then it went very quickly to Prime Video. It was a co-production with Amazon. And it did really well on Prime as well because it had that promotional. Horror is a great example as well. Abigail, Megan. And that's really about you know capturing those people who just want to see them in opening weekend. And then you can be very agile. So if it does well, then keep it in the cinema. If it doesn't really do well in the opening weekend, then you can transition it super quickly to premium VOD. And then you can very quickly move it to streaming. Then you've got your sort of medium window, the workhorses. And we're talking, you know, The Devil Wears Prada, which had six two, sorry, the second one, which had 60 days window. Project Hail Mary, 53 days. That's really where you know we were pre-pandemic or we were heading to pre-pandemic. That allows you to have a really solid promotional campaign. And then once you've exhausted the people who will go and see it in the movies, you sort of capitalize on it very quickly and you don't lose your momentum as you move it to streaming. And both of these movies are now both already in streaming. and Then you've got the extra special ones. So 90 to 100 plus days, that's The Odyssey. Weirdly, that's Moana 2. Well, that's done really, really well as well. You didn't mention it, but it's another big one for this year. This these will go for both you know uncompromising exclusivity to theatrical and the sort of IMAX, Dolby, must-see, and need to talk about this, etc. So it's really interesting. What it doesn't do is it doesn't prevent flops. So it's interesting. I said that Moana did incredibly well, but Moana live action is not doing well at all. Sometimes, you know, it doesn't give you extend the franchise a little bit too long. You may have the longest theatrical release you want, the best promotional strategy. It still won't work. But what it does give you as a benefit is the opportunity to Be flexible. So there's a movie called Obsession, which was a sort of horror, gore, slasher movie that came out in the movie in this theater with very little promotion and did really well. And it became a word of mouth hit. And actually it brought people into cinemas on Tuesday evenings and at moments where people weren't going to the cinema. So the studio decided to keep it in the cinema much longer than they had that they had anticipated. So you can be a little bit more flexible. And I'm going to finish with one final thing about how film windows and film promotion has changed dramatically. I don't know if you guys are on social media, but if you're anywhere near Instagram or any form of social media or have been in the last... 30 days, you will have been bombarded with clips about The Odyssey, I suspect. And that's because, and this is an insane number, 65% of the promotional budget of The Odyssey is on digital media, which is, you know, pre-COVID, where we're talking traditional promotion, 85%, digital, 15%. That's basically flipped. So we're talking 65% to 80% on digital, and then you still have the sort of traditional media. But something like... Specifically, The Odyssey had spent about $80 million On their digital and social media campaign, which works because we all watched it and we all watched the clips and it was all about, you know, the stars go interviewed, et cetera.

[00:16:35] Claire
And they pushed it to target the, you know, the younger viewers, the millennials, et cetera. And it went all over TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube short. And then the rest of the budget, which was still about 44 million was very much around high profile experiential. Or installation, including apparently a custom-built Trojan horse, which we obviously missed. Apparently, it was in London. Did you see that? I didn't see that.

[00:16:59] Maureen
I didn't see it.

[00:16:59] Claire
And then, yeah the entire and then you know as you mentioned, the IMAX 70mm push, which was a big part of this specific movie.

[00:17:00] Maureen
I didn't see it. oh

[00:17:09] Claire
And then most of the rest of the course was about flying the cast to all these places around the world in private jets. So that's where it went as well. But if you think about how things were being done only you know seven, eight years ago, we were in a very different place. 65% to 70% promotional budgets on digital. very flexible, but flexible, not in a chaotic way, in a fairly organized way, theatrical windows, which also help the cinemas because they have much more visibility on what may or may not come through. It feels like everybody's on much more solid ground than they were you know a few years ago.

[00:17:46] Claire
That's me.

[00:17:47] Maureen
And i was I was quite surprised by the number of interviews Christopher Nolan gave — both on social and on TV. He rarely gives interviews, and he was all over, spread all over the American TV Saturday night throughout the week as well.

[00:18:10] Maureen
So, yeah.

[00:18:11] Claire
And these are contractual obligations, of course.

[00:18:11] Maureen
Amazing. that They are indeed.

[00:18:14] Claire
They were, I'd assume, a quid pro quo for him getting the $250 million dollars to make his movie.

[00:18:14] Maureen
They are indeed.

[00:18:23] Claire
He's definitely done the legwork.

[00:18:23] Maureen
Exactly. He has, yeah.

[00:18:28] Oliver
Wow, thanks you so much for explaining all that so well. I know we talked about windows before, but I can't, i don't think I don't think I've ever heard it explained so well. So thank you for that. A fascinating deep dive into the world of cinema. Is it back? Is it going? Is it different? I think maybe that. Maybe the message and those reclining seats are lovely. I have performed on IMAX cinema. We did a corporate event there and the PowerPoint was just rubbish. It was just a load of bullet points on an IMAX screen. Bullet points the size of your head.

[00:18:55] Maureen
What a waste, what a waste.

[00:18:55] Oliver
What a waste of an experiential opportunity. It was embarrassing. But anyway, I can tell that. performed at an IMAX at the south of Waterloo Bridge. What a fantastic place to watch. Honestly, I'd imagine. So thank you so much for the deep dive. Brilliant as ever. We move inextricably to In The News. Right, so let's start with Claire, who's been to Comic-Con maybe, or pretended to.

[00:19:24] Claire
I wish!

[00:19:25] Oliver
Yeah, she didn't.

[00:19:26] Maureen
Well, yes.

[00:19:28] Oliver
But yes, Comic-Con 2026, your impressions.

[00:19:34] Claire
San Diego Comic-Con (SDCC) 2026 took place last week, it's just finished, finished three days ago. That was its 56th edition. Let me give you a few stats about Comic Con. 135,000 badge holders sold out. Plus 200,000 additional fans and badge just being there to see the stars, et cetera.

[00:19:57] Claire
$400, the cost of the badge. But overall, over $1,000 per person, if you include the lodging, the travel and everything. And that's that's just to get your sense of the crowd. Now, what happened at Comic-Con? Ryan Gosling was announced as Ghost Rider. Dayo Johnson, a great London star from RADA, was announced as the new Black Panther. Avengers: Doomsday launched new fresh footage. The Lord of the Rings season three, Rings of Power season three was presented. Blade Runner 2099, which I didn't even know was the series, came up. The point is Comic-Con, and I go back to our non-traditional promotional strategy, Comic-Con has become the place to launch anything that is vaguely fandom based. That's a very large interpretation of it. It's become the thing that people have to attend and it has become a real date in everybody's calendar, which is interesting because it started in 1969. At that point, that the ticket, by the way, was $3.50. And it was mostly a team of teenagers who really liked comic books and wanted to create something that would bring comic books together. It's still a non-profit organization. They reinvest a lot in the community.

[00:21:29] Claire
I think it's a really nice story because it's the power of a fandom that's expanded, obviously, and has become something really major. But It feels like it stayed, at least in part, very close to its roots. But it's definitely now, if you want to promote something that is in that fandom universe, it's the absolute place to be. You cannot get away from San Diego Comic-Con. And one day I will be there.

[00:21:55] Oliver
I'm sure. OK.

[00:21:56] Maureen
And Claire, I'll come with you. Claire, I'll be there with you.

[00:21:58] Claire
Excellent.

[00:21:59] Maureen
I'll be there with you.

[00:21:59] Claire
We'll do a field trip — we'll do a very special episode from the San Diego Comic-Con.

[00:22:04] Oliver
Oh, lovely. I'm sure they won't extend to three tickets. Maybe you never OK, that was wonderful. Thank you so much.

[00:22:11] Maureen
Oh, can I pick up something, though? that There was one controversial item there, which, of course, did not pass me by.

[00:22:13] Oliver
Oh, yeah.

[00:22:17] Maureen
There was a bit of a divide and a big debate. So, Guillermo del Toro, my pronunciation is really bad.

[00:22:27] Claire
Guillermo del Toro, yeah.

[00:22:28] Maureen
Yeah, he basically launched the revised 3D version of Pan's Labyrinth. which of course was completed all by hand and of course the question put to him was did you did you make that with AI and he said he said absolutely no AI and just like screamed from the panel in room I think it was hall H or something and it's always exactly and what struck what struck me about that though was that there is a lot of controversy.

[00:22:53] Claire
Yeah. It's always all hate whole age. Yeah.

[00:23:03] Maureen
There's a lot of people who are not using AI.

[00:23:06] Maureen
There's a hell of lot of people who are using AI. And those people that are using AI say, look, this is not replacing the writers. This is not replacing the artists. It's not replacing the actors. And it's not replacing much, really. So, you know, get off your high horse there kind of thing. But they all love talking about it. They all love it to be the subject, but no one's really talking about, you know, who's actually using it.

[00:23:23] Claire
Oh, yeah.

[00:23:27] Maureen
So I found that quite fascinating. But... Yeah, so 20th anniversary of Pan's Labyrinth, which is amazing.

[00:23:34] Claire
One of the scariest movies ever. We made the mistake of thinking it was a kid's movie and showed it to our children when they were still quite young.

[00:23:39] Maureen
No. No.

[00:23:41] Claire
They haven't forgiven us, I think.

[00:23:45] Oliver
Oh, well, good job.

[00:23:46] Oliver
I've started my course of being a therapist. I might be able to help you out there.

[00:23:49] Claire
Yes, exactly.

[00:23:50] Oliver
You've got four kids, bulk deal. You never know. I'm a beginner. Marvellous. Thank you for that. That's very interesting. I always thought it was nerds flicking through comics. But no, it's much more than that. So that's great. Thank you for that. So here we go. Paramount Towers. Our roving reporter Maureen is at Paramount Towers with the merger story and a delay, apparently, Maureen. What's that all about?

[00:24:20] Maureen
Yeah, yeah. Oh, gosh, this is never ending. This is going to be a never ending story.

[00:24:25] Maureen
So Paramount agreed on Friday not to close the deal — the purchase of Warner Brothers Discovery until five days after a court ruling or the first parts of June next year. So it's the early part. It's around June 1. So, of course, as we remember, this is a hundred and ten billion dollar deal. It's going to be paused for the best of this year. I actually wrote about this. Sorry, another plug. on Forbes.

[00:24:55] Maureen
It's striking. There are four different regulators who are looking at the same transaction, but they're seeing four different media markets. Washington cleared the deal and said across streaming, linear television and theatrical distribution, it's fine. But a court in California then paused it over what they described to be the combined company. So Paramount, Skydance and Warner a combined company share of wide release films, which would be something to a tune of like 27, almost 27, 30% of the market, which of course is a big deal. Brussels in Europe, they cleared it only if Paramount were to exit its European distribution venture with Universal. And the UK, so Ms. Nandy, is probably going to have to change our own media law before it can properly review the streaming side of it all. So the yeah UK angle, I think, is the one worth watching. And we've got clearly time to watch it. So the government wants to examine both news plurality because CNN International and Channel 5 would become basically one under the same owner. And the concentration of on-demand services is clearly a bit of an issue. But the Enterprise act that does not currently cover that second category is the issue here. So Parliament may have to create the test or the merger clock is ticking and the merger clock is a big issue. So at the end of September, the deal, so that $110 billion dollars is fixed in stone, but this is this is awful. But what will happen is that Skydance Paramount will have to pay almost $7 million dollars per day for every day this passes by.

[00:26:48] Maureen
So as of October, it will be $7 million dollars per day. And then if it doesn't go through, if the deal falls apart, Paramount could owe Warner $7 billion dollars termination fee. So I think what's happening at the moment is four regulators are really not agreeing on what part of the deal, what type of company are they actually looking at? And I think this disagreement is going to cause a bit of a bit of an issue for all parties. But more importantly, I think the cost factor here is going to fall to Paramount Skydance. So highly complicated, very difficult to unpack. But I think they're the sort of high level numbers and issues that both parties face at the moment. Sorry to say, one to watch.

[00:27:40] Maureen
[00:27:41] Claire
Sorry, that will run and run. I think Ellison is obviously very sure that he will win and that's why he's doing it this way.

[00:27:43] Maureen

[00:27:48] Claire
But And you've explained it so well, I'm not going to go into the technical details, but what I will say is, and we've been in, or certainly I've been in these situations, It's very hard to work for one of these companies in any function if you kind of know but don't know that something may or may not happen sometime at some point in the future. In terms of doing any form of budgeting, of forward planning, of commissioning, of you know scheduling, etc., it makes everything very, very difficult. Both organizations have already conducted projects almost preemptively, quite significant cost cuts. And they are now in a state of stasis, which is not going to be good for the industry either, because a lot of decisions will be delayed. So it's going to be at a tough year for the people actually on the ground doing the work. That would be my take on this.

[00:28:39] Oliver
It possibly good people will leave as well? I don't know if that happens at all.

[00:28:41] Claire
A lot of good, I mean, some have already left.

[00:28:43] Oliver
Yeah, company in turmoil, never a good thing.

[00:28:44] Claire
Yeah. yeah

[00:28:45] Oliver
Okay, good. We will keep an eye on that, Maureen especially. Thanks. And for something so complicated, you make it seem so simple, which is one of your many gifts. Let's move on. So, Claire, yes, gaming. So, I've known nothing about this, and I'm extremely prejudiced about the people who game, which is very, very bad of me. And I don't want it to talk about it.

[00:29:05] Claire
That's very bad.

[00:29:07] Oliver
I'll admit I'm extremely prejudiced about gamers. But I do know there's a new season of Fortnite. But I do know there's a new season of Fortnite and you've got some views on the Roblox/Fortnite, let's call it, massive battle.

[00:29:23] Claire
Well, I was interested because I saw that there was a new season of Fortnite that came out. Actually, it's almost a month ago now. And was like, is Fortnite still a thing? It feels like everybody's talking about Roblox and less about Fortnite. And there was a point a few years ago where Roblox wasn't that big a thing and Fortnite was everywhere. And there was a point before that where it was all about Minecraft. So I thought, let's have a quick look. And it's quite interesting. First of all, two very different platforms, both very popular with younger platforms. Mostly male demographics, which may explain, Oliver, why they haven't crossed your toes.

[00:29:57] Claire
But a very, very different environments and different dynamics. Roblox wins by far in terms of daily active users. And that was my surprising discovery. I just thought it was interesting. Roblox has 145 million daily active users. Fortnite has around 30 million daily active users — much smaller, though not bad. And Roblox users average over 2.5 hours per day on the platform — which is quite something.

[00:30:30] Oliver
Ooh, God. old

[00:30:31] Claire
And that platform, by the way, is mostly mobile. So Roblox, one of the big advantages of Roblox is you can you can play on mobile, whereas Fortnite remains mostly a PlayStation and Xbox. And the reason why Roblox is so popular is really it's a social platform. It really operates as a sort of YouTube style ecosystem for user generated games. So it's a creative social platform where children don't just play titles on Roblox. They use it as a virtual town square.

[00:31:00] Claire
It's very much a metaverse. Users constantly create and upload new games. Now, Fortnite went a very different way. Fortnite went into event-driven peaks, hence the new the new season. They do that very, very well. They can draw over 40 million concurrent players if they have like a big live event, a major season final, etc. That's huge. So it's a very different model. They are slightly older, you know meaning they're between 18 24. So we're still looking quite young, but a little bit older than Roblox, which means that they have more of a chasing power.

[00:31:37] Oliver
Thanks.

[00:31:44] Claire
And so Fortnite has been, you know as we've spoken about before, has been very popular with advertisers trying to reach that specific 18 24 range. Demographic and they've done really well. So I think, you know, and Fortnite has done very well with partnerships as well. They have Lego Fortnites, they have a Fortnite festival, they have creator islands. So they have expanded into an ecosystem as well.

[00:32:07] Oliver
Thank

[00:32:09] Claire
So I think it's a an interesting comparison. Roblox has definitely won the daily attention battle for the younger part of Gen Z and Gen Alpha. And Fortnite has really become a media franchise. which is a very different direction. And Roblox is actually 10 years older than Fortnite. Roblox started in 2006 and Fortnite in 2017, but you know it was a sort of Roblox, took a while to get to where it is. So I don't have a very specific conclusion on this. I just thought it was very interesting to compare these two very different ecosystems for young people. Where At the moment where we talk a lot about you know young people on screens, They are both quite creative playgrounds. Of course, not everything on it is positive, but they also are a great way for people to get into coding, to get into game design. And they've been relatively early with anything to do with child safety, which is always a good thing. So that was my update on Roblox and Fortnite.

[00:33:15] Maureen
I think you describe it brilliantly, actually. And my takeaway there is sort of Roblox looks like it has the platform culture and then Fortnite becomes a sort of blockbuster production engine.

[00:33:27] Maureen
And both of them sort of converge to try to do the same thing, the same prize is basically becoming the place where audiences play whatever comes next. They just sort of get on with it.

[00:33:38] Claire
Yeah, you could all, I mean, if you if you wanted to really push the metaphor, you could say that Roblox is a sort of YouTube and Fortnite is a sort of Netflix.

[00:33:39] Maureen
It's amazing environment.

[00:33:48] Claire
You know, Roblox is YouTube because anyone can upload a game. Fortnite really is quite highly curated, has you know more that sort of blockbuster production. But they are now trying to invest into creator style network, which by the way, Netflix is doing as well. So there's a lot of parallels in there that are quite interesting to look at.

[00:34:05] Maureen
That was

[00:34:07] Oliver
So maybe this town is big enough for both of them. it It's a big town and they're two big sheriffs.

[00:34:10] Maureen
Great.

[00:34:12] Claire
That was good. well Have you been sitting on that one for a while?

[00:34:14] Oliver
A little bit.

[00:34:14] Claire
I guess it's excellent.

[00:34:15] Oliver
I've been like, let me let me get this. Let me get this in. Let me get me. Me. I've got a joke.

[00:34:20] Claire
I liked it.

[00:34:20] Oliver
I've got a joke.

[00:34:21] Maureen
Great

[00:34:22] Oliver
That's fantastic. Thank you. Very interesting. Yes. All these convergence, divergence, things leaking to others. Venn diagrams. Lovely. Always fascinating. That was in the news. Okay, so everyone likes music. So let's have a special musical edition of Podmojis with associated Podmoji props, I'm hoping, but with slightly heavy heart. First, this is the say actually Maureen, this is probably something you need to explain. Live music, go big or go home. I can imagine what it means, but you'll describe it better.

[00:35:01] Maureen
Yeah, so this is this is a headline in the Financial Times, authored by or penned by Will Page. A fantastic headline, you know, go big or stay home, effectively. And And we all know, well, we don't all know, we kind of like Will Page. He does a fantastic podcast as well.

[00:35:21] Claire
He's brilliant.

[00:35:21] Maureen
There's a bit of a plug there. He's brilliant. And he's a former chief economist.

[00:35:25] Claire
But should get him on the yeah We should get him on the board.

[00:35:25] Maureen
Of economist we should guess it We should invite him along.

[00:35:27] Claire
Yeah, brilliant. Yeah. yeah he's brilliant

[00:35:28] Maureen
Come on. on, Will. If you're listening to us, you've been there's a seat there's a seat, an empty seat waiting for you.

[00:35:34] Maureen
So so he's he's a former chief economist of, I think he was at Spotify. So he does know a number or two. So I do trust the statistics that he pens or he talks about and talks around. So he threw out a couple of interesting statistics. So he was talking about stadium income and people who visit Wembley versus people who basically stay at home. We threw out a couple of numbers and that was a couple going to a stadium show, so going to a Wembley, can spend, I almost fell off my chair, almost £500 on tickets, food, drink and transportation. And if you compare that

[00:36:19] Claire
And that's before you buy the t-shirts.

[00:36:20] Maureen
And that's before you buy the merch. Exactly.

[00:36:22] Maureen
Is it yeah Before you buy the merch, for sure.

[00:36:25] Maureen
And he compared that against a number that he threw out, £140 to £150 per year on a Spotify subscription or other music subscription. So so he's effectively, his point being here, live music is absorbing the spending that recorded music left on the table. And I've lifted that directly from his FT article, so attributed to him. so what lies underneath all that is the stadium clearly is in the middle of what is going on here.

[00:36:48] Oliver
Thank

[00:36:55] Maureen
So more than apparently 150, think it's festivals, as we all know, were cancelled since And so the stadium like that, i.e. You know tickets which are cost probably about 200, 300, 400 pounds because the night is scarce.

[00:37:20] Maureen
So the medium-sized festivals clearly cannot. So here's the part which I really liked about the article. And I can't pronounce the person's name, but he's he's a Punjabi superstar. And he's called Diljit Dosanije. So he's playing at Wembley this summer. And almost all of the tickets are sold out. And we know the capacity of Wembley. It holds up to, say, 90,000 people. So, I mean, he's huge in as a Punjabi star. But we probably, u k main mainstream listeners, probably have never heard of him whatsoever.

[00:37:59] Oliver
Thank

[00:38:00] Maureen
So streaming has allowed, I think, artists to really build their audiences without relying on the old gatekeepers. And when it comes to live music, it looks like much of the spending still ends up in a smaller number of stadiums. So I thought that was a really sort of interesting article that Will put together. But would be lovely to get him on to talk in his words, on his terms, about that finding. But I thought it was fascinating of what the recorded music part of the industry is definitely leaving on the table.

[00:38:32] Oliver
And could I trouble you for a bit?

[00:38:32] Claire
And you have to have a Podmoji.

[00:38:33] Maureen
Claire.

[00:38:34] Oliver
Yes, thank you. Thank you, Claire.

[00:38:34] Maureen
And my...

[00:38:35] Oliver
Yes. putting often What is the point of having me? I don't know.

[00:38:40] Maureen
His wife is

[00:38:41] Oliver
Oh, that's a brilliant idea.

[00:38:42] Claire
Oh, it's back.

[00:38:43] Oliver
Yes, the dog with the heart.

[00:38:44] Claire
It's back. I feel really bad because I would just ask you for a Podmoji. I'm not sure what mine is.

[00:38:48] Maureen
Yeah, yeah.

[00:38:48] Oliver
Like Low scoring week.

[00:38:48] Claire
I mean...

[00:38:49] Maureen
Just my Podmoji to say really, really happy listening to some music. Yeah, look, look. His music.

[00:38:54] Oliver
I was, as Claire looks around, I can say I was enjoying some live music at Kistry this weekend.

[00:38:55] Maureen
It's the only toy I've got. yes

[00:38:59] Oliver
Kistry on Blackheath.

[00:39:00] Maureen
Oh, lovely.

[00:39:01] Oliver
Yeah, very funky.

[00:39:02] Oliver
Yeah, little bit of dancing. lot more for my wife. And know what we got here? We've got the Podmoji before the talk, which is interesting.

[00:39:08] Claire
Yeah, my Podmoji is the middle. The middle is falling down, like London Bridge.

[00:39:14] Oliver
Oh, I see.

[00:39:15] Claire
Look at that. It's falling down. mean, come on, he's falling down. It's hard to be in the middle.

[00:39:19] Oliver
Yep, got it.

[00:39:21] Claire
Festivals, midsize, not a good place to be right now, for sure.

[00:39:26] Claire
It's true in television, it's true in gaming, and it's definitely true in live music. So, yeah, I think that's really interesting.

[00:39:32] Oliver
Yeah, yeah.

[00:39:32] Claire
I'm going to use him again, by the way. Be prepared.

[00:39:35] Oliver
Yeah, no.

[00:39:36] Maureen
Like, likewise, it's the only thing on my desk.

[00:39:39] Oliver
Can relate to that. And I like a nice small intimate gig as well.

[00:39:41] Oliver
So I need to find another artist that no one else likes.

[00:39:44] Oliver
So great.

[00:39:46] Oliver
Good. Points plenty there. So let's move on. Claire, you can start with this one. Yes. World Cup halftime show.

[00:39:54] Oliver
We've all seen it.

[00:39:55] Claire
Yes. Okay.

[00:39:55] Oliver
We've all got an opinion on it.

[00:39:56] Claire
I have a pot emoji on this one.

[00:39:58] Oliver
Yeah, there you go. good Lord.

[00:40:01] Claire
In the words of Wayne Rooney, it was crap.

[00:40:05] Oliver
I thought it was, I liked some of the artists, but I thought it was crap.

[00:40:06] Claire
I mean, to be honest,

[00:40:09] Claire
Well, I wasn't going to dare do the accent, but I thought that was very good. That was very good, Oliver. Thank you for that. Yeah, I mean, it listen, we've criticized some of the changes at the World Cup, and I think this is another one that didn't go down well at all with the fans. It doubled the time of halftime during the pretty tetchy final anyway. it was... Very disjointed. It felt very chaotic. It's not it's not a natural place. for it It's not the Super Bowl. It's basically the conclusion of everybody except Americans. And it just felt it fell flat. it was you know They had massive names. They had Madonna. it was you know They had Shakira, who apparently was one of the better ones. They had Justin Bieber, BTS, et cetera. Oh, they had the Muppets, but it still didn't work. And it's another example, I think, and we've had news this week from the FIFA again about trying to make it bigger, bolder, brighter. And I think that was good something that didn't work. I didn't like it.

[00:41:17] Maureen
But you know what did work? you know what did work as a consequence? So the streams of Justin Bieber's song rose 110%, Madonna's 66%, BTS up 43%. So the fact that they were there. Bts up forty three percent so the fact that they were there

[00:41:33] Claire
Well, you've just really annoyed me now.

[00:41:35] Maureen
I know. I'm so sorry.

[00:41:36] Oliver
Someone likes it.

[00:41:36] Maureen
I'm so sorry. Because the performance, the theatre of it, i would I agree, it was disjointed.

[00:41:42] Maureen
I watched that. However, you could see the intention, the platform, and it was an enormous platform.

[00:41:44] Claire
The platform. Yeah.

[00:41:48] Maureen
And So I think FIFA gained another show, to be honest. And I'd say that streaming and the income almost doubled and tripled.

[00:41:57] Maureen
So for the artists. Yeah.

[00:41:58] Oliver
Well, Wade was right. Some people liked the artist, but the overall show didn't work.

[00:42:02] Claire
Yeah, the show was crap. Yeah.

[00:42:03] Oliver
I'd say, , it's not a bad pundit, yeah?

[00:42:04] Claire
Well, Wayne is always right, isn't he? Well, well yeah.

[00:42:06] Maureen
Well, he's actually really good. i mean, I'm not a football person generally, but I thought his coverage was great.

[00:42:09] Claire
Yeah. Yeah.

[00:42:11] Oliver
It's Yeah, I can't, I can't, I still can't get over seeing Ronaldinho and the original Ronaldo driving Madonna.

[00:42:13] Maureen
Enjoyed it.

[00:42:18] Oliver
I thought I was, literally thought I was hallucinating. I'd had a few beers, admit, but I thought, wait a minute, that's R9. That's Ronaldinho. What, they're driving a Jeep. That's, hang on, that's Madonna.

[00:42:28] Claire
What?

[00:42:28] Oliver
What the hell is going on? Jimi Hendrix is going to appear now, riding, don't know, Shergar.

[00:42:34] Maureen
The Trojan horse.

[00:42:35] Oliver
Yeah, I want to the Trojan Orpher.

[00:42:37] Claire
That would have been amazing.

[00:42:39] Maureen
That That would have been great. i would have I would have spent my P&A on that.

[00:42:40] Oliver
You see? You should leave the creative stress.

[00:42:42] Claire
Yeah. Yeah.

[00:42:44] Oliver
I don't suppose I can trouble either you for Bob Mochis or oh no, you did one Claire.

[00:42:47] Claire
I did put Mochi.

[00:42:48] Oliver
You do Claire did the thumbs.

[00:42:49] Claire
Did. I did. That was my put Mochi.

[00:42:50] Oliver
Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's fair enough.

[00:42:51] Maureen
Like did and I said this is the is ears of the dog listening out to Justin Bieber.

[00:42:53] Oliver
Oh, the dog again. That's a good idea. The dog.

[00:42:57] Claire
Well, it does have big ears. Yeah.

[00:42:58] Oliver
It doesn't look unlike Wayne Rooney, actually.

[00:42:59] Maureen
See? It does look like Wayne Rooney a bit, doesn't it?

[00:43:01] Oliver
Post hair.

[00:43:02] Oliver
Yeah, there we go.

[00:43:03] Oliver
All right, let's move on.

[00:43:04] Claire
It's got more hair.

[00:43:04] Maureen
I Yeah

[00:43:06] Oliver
I don't understand this next one. Maybe I should have done some work ahead of time, but never mind.

[00:43:09] Maureen
It's hilarious.

[00:43:10] Oliver
Maureen's going to explain. The musical lollipop, or a musical lollipop,

[00:43:14] Maureen
Yeah, well, i've I've got to give total credit to Claire for digging this one up. It was amazing. and then and then and then And then asking me to kick off. Yeah. So anyway, so it was one of the strangest products shown at CES, which is the big technology show in the US. And this year was a night. Listen to this. This is hilarious. A nine dollar lollipop that plays music. And it was called it is called Lollipop Star. So there are three flavors, each linked to a different artist and an exclusive. The operative word here is exclusive song. You bite the sweet with your back teeth and a bone conduction technology sends the music through your jaw to your inner ear so nobody else can hear it. And the track is not available on any streaming services, not on Spotify, YouTube or anywhere else. You can only hear it while eating the lollipop. So it turns digital music back into a physical product. It's limited, it's private and it's single use. So streaming made songs available anywhere at almost no extra cost. So this makes a song disappear as you consume it. And it may be the only release window. That ends because the audience has eaten it. Thank you so much, Claire, for having to do the research on that one because I didn't cover it back in January.

[00:44:39] Maureen
I love this story.

[00:44:39] Claire
No, no.

[00:44:40] Maureen
I love this story.

[00:44:41] Maureen
Does.

[00:44:42] Claire
This came up on my feed, I have to say. I just thought, what? Oh, that's a very happy dog right there. he drives a bit like my cars. Yeah, that was fantastic. If you've ever tried that technology, it's quite amazing because I have headphones that you but that I use for swimming that do that.

[00:45:07] Claire
And it feels really odd because you're not putting anything in your ear and you're you can hear the music you were as if it was playing out loud and it's not. But I'd never thought of using it as a lollipop. And I love the main, is that the Asti, the manufacturers, why? And they replayed, why not? Which is a really great answer. So I think I love it. My point on this one is thumbs up as opposed to first to the welcome. I love the why not of it. Why not indeed?

[00:45:43] Oliver
Sorry, is it the same song across the whole lollipop set?

[00:45:47] Maureen
Yes, yes, it's only one song.

[00:45:47] Oliver
It's not a unique...

[00:45:48] Claire
Well, there are three songs. Well, there are three different there are three different songs for three different flavors.

[00:45:49] Oliver
Oh, I see.

[00:45:50] Maureen
There are three different types, three different flavours. So for one lollipop, it is one song.

[00:45:56] Oliver
Okay, for one play with the lollipop. And it's one song, and once you've eaten it, it's gone. And is it a famous artist who's created the music, or just...

[00:46:03] Maureen
I'm not sure which artists you'll commission, Claire, would you?

[00:46:05] Claire
They are nice spies bodyty buty and i'm sorry i so I Spice, and...

[00:46:10] Oliver
Oh, Akon. Yeah.

[00:46:13] Claire
Akon, and Harmony White. So sort of mid-size artists, not, not and you know...

[00:46:18] Oliver
Quite big, isn't they? And there's a lady here called Tara Brown. I think she might taking the photo, actually, but there's a lady looking very happy. And the quote is, I tried this lollipop that plays music in my head. It was also delicious. So I get two for one.

[00:46:32] Oliver
I would have definitely tried that. Well, what a great story to end. So great Podmojis to draw this week. And it was a yeah draw for the 100th episode. I think that's probably appropriate. And we are. Yeah, exactly. 50-50, quite literally.

[00:46:47] Maureen
Yeah, 50

[00:46:49] Oliver
So we're there. We've done it. That's great.

[00:46:50] Maureen
And none food its none for Oliver. yes

[00:46:52] Oliver
No, nothing to me.

[00:46:53] Claire
Oliver gets all the points always.

[00:46:53] Oliver
Yes. yeah yes Yeah, I start on 100 points.

[00:46:54] Maureen
I guess points.

[00:46:54] Claire
Yeah. yeah

[00:46:57] Oliver
It's a sort of, yeah, it's a handicap kind of race.

[00:47:00] Oliver
Right. Good. We're done. Well done. we made it 100. We're going to make it to 200. I have absolutely no doubt what fun it's been.

[00:47:07] Oliver
But for now, bye, Claire.

[00:47:11] Claire
Goodbye, Oliver. Goodbye, Maureen. Goodbye, everyone.

[00:47:13] Oliver
And goodbye,
[00:47:15] Maureen
Goodbye Claire, goodbye Oliver, goodbye everyone, including Nico.

[00:47:19] Oliver
Absolutely, Nico. And see you all on episode 101. But for now...

[00:47:24] Claire
I have to say his name is Nino.

[00:47:24] Oliver
Oh, what?

[00:47:25] Claire
I will say it because poor Nino actually listens to this and he'll be very upset.

[00:47:26] Maureen
Oh, Nina, I keep saying

[00:47:26] Oliver
Oh, Nico. Oh, God.

[00:47:30] Claire
It's Nino.

[00:47:32] Oliver
We can cut that out.

[00:47:34] Maureen
Sorry about that, I know Nico.

[00:47:35] Claire
I didn't say the first time, but now I have to say it.

[00:47:37] Maureen
Oh, you should have corrected me the first time, but maybe consistency is good.

[00:47:40] Oliver
Oh, dear.

[00:47:41] Claire
We love you, Nino. We love you, Nino.

[00:47:43] Maureen
We love you, Nino. I apologize, Nino.

[00:47:45] Maureen
I had Nico in my head. I don't know why. Just because i was listening to though I was listening to Velvet Underground.

[00:47:47] Claire
We'll change it in post. Yeah.

[00:47:49] Oliver
Well, I was thinking...

[00:47:50] Maureen
I was listening to Velvet Underground earlier, and Nico is the voice.

[00:47:51] Claire
Yeah. Well, that's a good excuse.

[00:47:53] Oliver
I was listening to you with a different name.

[00:47:55] Maureen
That's my excuse!

[00:47:56] Oliver
That's why I misnamed you. I think you'll probably fall there. Well, Nino, if you are listening, we love you so much. We're not going to change any of this because it's going to be completely complicated to take out all references to Nico. So Nino, if you're listening, we love you and we know what you're called.

[00:48:11] Oliver
And for the rest of you, because I don't think Nino will be joining us, for the rest of you, we'll see you on episode 101. But for now, bye-bye.